Map Rushing Ideas

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Map Rushing Ideas

Post by obituary on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:32 am

As you know, the map rushing continues, and the process of removing maps as they get rushed continues as well.

A lot of people have told that they don't like it when I take out their favorite map because some douchebag rushed it. And it's not fair to them that I keep running Minas, which gets rushed every other time it plays, while their favorite map is banished from the server.

I see their point. I am open to suggestions on how to fix this. I'm not really interested in creating a bunch of rules because they won't be followed anyway and then we have to ban people and all that stuff again.

I'm looking for technical suggestions. Obviously the easy technical suggestion is bring all the maps back but set the gravity to 800 (normal) on the rushed maps. But that would make a bunch of people cry and shit their diapers all over the chat every time the map comes up and they can't jump like they are used to.

So any "good" ideas, let me know in this thread. Thanks!

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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by obituary on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:49 am

One thing I am thinking about is the silent mod team deathmatch setting. We might be able to run that on the rushable maps and then we dont have an objective to rush.

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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by smuck on Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:15 pm

Not an idea yet, but a clarifying question to perhaps prompt an idea--  Is it the "objectives out of order" type of rushing that you want to address first or "finished the damn map too fast" type of rushing?

FWIW, I wonder if you can goose the gravity without having to do it in multiples of 200.  Perhaps that deals with it without nerfing our artificial hops altogether.  Just a thought...
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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by obituary on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:31 pm

It's a gradient of annoyance... doing an objective out of order on Minas messes up the whole map, but on other maps it doesn't do anything.

Every single map is unique, all written by different people, so some have better error-correcting code than others. Some maps you can skip an objective and nothing happens (like glider) and you can keep playing, but on minas skip and objective and all the bots are at the bottom of the map while the humans are spawning at the top (in the same spot lol).

The other thing is that writing mapscripts is tedious and there's so many maps that need to be fixed. Also I think a lot of people see it as a challenge like "hey I bet I can still find a way around that barrier".

I've been on servers where they had lots of artificial walls added to stop rushing and it kind of felt wrong, like they had messed up the map, and I personally don't like to do it. If it was just one map or just one wall it would be ok but we would have to add walls all over the place. Imagine how many walls we would need to "fix minas" so you had to blow the gates. That's why just using normal gravity is such an obvious solution, but I've painted myself into a corner over the years with the low gravity that people expect it. I tried it once a few years ago on certain maps when they got rushed and I had people reporting it as rcon hacks (they thought someone was deliberately hacking the server just to change the gravity). So people do react badly when you change a setting like that.

The team deathmatch thing... it is a different gametype in silent mod, which doesn't use the objective, but also it prevents the map voting. I might try it anyway and set the gametype from 6 to 7 back and forth from map to map. Then we wouldn't be able to vote after a team deathmatch map played, and it would just nextmap to the next map in the cycle, instead of allowing the vote. Otherwise I like the idea, but I know taking away voting after half the maps won't be popular.

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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by obituary on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:35 pm

I just checked the silent mod forum and it appears TDM has mapvoting enabled now...

So we can run this option. Cool...

g_TDMOptions

Description:
Possible options for the played Team Death Match.
Type: bitmask
Parameters:
1 Map voting is enabled during the intermission (i.e. The players vote for the next map to play during the intermission.)
2 Completing the map objective will give the team score bonus that is controlled by the g_TDMObjBonus server cvar
4 Teams get negative points when they do selfkills or teamkills
8 Players cannot selfkill during the TDM. Regardless of other selfkill settings the server has configured

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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by Koenios on Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:06 am

obituary wrote:I just checked the silent mod forum and it appears TDM has mapvoting enabled now...

So we can run this option. Cool...

g_TDMOptions


Description:
Possible options for the played Team Death Match.
Type: bitmask
Parameters:
1 Map voting is enabled during the intermission (i.e. The players vote for the next map to play during the intermission.)
2 Completing the map objective will give the team score bonus that is controlled by the g_TDMObjBonus server cvar
4 Teams get negative points when they do selfkills or teamkills
8 Players cannot selfkill during the TDM. Regardless of other selfkill settings the server has configured
`

I fear this will just result in the team with the most amount of bots losing, since both teams will probably go full spawn camp mode.

We have been fighting rushing for a long time, but people keep finding ways to do so. Perhaps we can just leave it as it is, and also leave up kick votes, so players can kick other players, when they think the rushing is annoying (if the majority agrees of course).

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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by smuck on Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:15 am

YES
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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by Friedrich on Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:21 am

Hey guy hope things are going well.  You could make the map restart if finished in first 5 minutes or 15 for minas.  If possible limit restarts to 3 so asshats do not abuse.  The best way will always be identifiable admins to kick and deter the behavior by being present.  A banner stating that rushing will result in map restart would be good.  The only way to fix minas  for bots would be an large mod to make gates open and bot spawns to change if flags are captured without gates being blown.  Also gates cannot be rebuildable and the main objective should not appear until all gates are blown.  This is the only technical fix I see other than normal gravity.   Hope this at least gives you some ideas.   Good luck.
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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by mogwy12 on Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:06 pm

Hey Friedrich,
long time to see you !! Smile
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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by Hashshashin on Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:54 am

Friedrich wrote:Hey guy hope things are going well.  You could make the map restart if finished in first 5 minutes or 15 for minas.  If possible limit restarts to 3 so asshats do not abuse.  The best way will always be identifiable admins to kick and deter the behavior by being present.  A banner stating that rushing will result in map restart would be good.  The only way to fix minas  for bots would be an large mod to make gates open and bot spawns to change if flags are captured without gates being blown.  Also gates cannot be rebuildable and the main objective should not appear until all gates are blown.  This is the only technical fix I see other than normal gravity.   Hope this at least gives you some ideas.   Good luck.

As this is a no-rules sever (for the most post), which has provided less drama, it might be hard to kick such a player or have a "rules" banner saying "no rushing."  I do however like your idea of having it restart automatically, interesting approach.  I haven't played in a while, but last I did Obit had Minas set up to simply remove the objective.  That works, sort of.

I think players should be better about map-voting too.  Just collectively vote to kick problem players. 

So why don't you play anymore Friedrich?
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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by Friedrich on Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Hey guys.  One reason that is that my computer is toast.  Been looking for a x99 system at the right price.  Alot of people got new gaming desktops since windows 10 came out so prices are high right now.  I have been playing console.  Planned to buy one last month but broken air conditioner nixed that plan.  Now I am trying to decide between a new computer or a lift suspension for my Jeep.  LOL  When I get the new system I will jump in a game.  Take care.
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Re: Map Rushing Ideas

Post by obituary on Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:36 am

Good to see you Friedrich!

Ive simplified everything here and it runs 10x better (no angry drama anymore).

For maps that get rushed a lot I was taking them off the server but now I just set them to gametype 7 (team deathmatch in silent mod) which disables the objective. So people can go jump to the top of minas and grab the objective and try to rush but nothing happens when they get to the church to win. Fkn hilarious watching them try to rush and be sneaky and nothing happens. This provides a nice "Final Solution" to the rushing problem, requires no rule enforcement, and doesnt take much effort (just change a setting when the rushed map is next).

If you get time you should come play. Im not on much anymore but there is usually 6-12 people on most nights.

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